10.2.08

טאַנצן אױף די קבֿרים

http://www.forward.com/articles/12634/

Commentary not coming...

אױסגעהענגען בײַ The W אין 10.2.08

4 comments:

Jasper Yate said...

riot soon, more like...

in my history class were just coming to the rise of christianity, and, though i knew this, it never really appeared to me because of the influence of christianity, that it is really just a sect of judaism. i always thought of it like:
[Christianity : catholics, protestants, lutherans, etc] [Judaism: i dont really know any particular religious sects of judaism]

but rather it really is [Judaism]:(sects of judaism);(christianity:{catholicism, protestantism, etc}) like hierarchicaly speaking, judasim is the father. i sort just always saw it as separate, probably because of the vehement disagrements and the eminence of the catholic church.

it seems like you dont concern yourself with the full jewish tradition as much now, and even less so with the particular religious aspects; but in the brotherhood of jewishness, instead of being exclusive, shouldnt jews play an almost "bigger man" role, and accept the christians as in the brotherhood or family of the proud jewish tradition? i mean it especially applies with subtracting religious differences, and even though much pride comes from the lasting and enduring tradition of judaism, should christians be left out because they succeded in manipulating people and gaining such power: i seriously doubt that powerful jews of the past never tried to abuse power and use religion to augment their rule.

just a thought. people are fucked up though, that link. i didnt read the full thing but it looks in very poor taste to say the least...

12 February 2008 at 13:23
The W said...

[Judaism]:(sects of judaism);(christianity:{catholicism, protestantism, etc})

by that logic you should throw Islam in there too. Its more directly related...

As far as the brotherhood thing, the closest anyone gets to this is when they use the term Judeo-Christain tradition, refering to values or some bs like that. The Christainity of Jesus by modern standards could have probably been considered a sect of Judaism, but the orthodoxy wouldnt be down with accepting it back in the day. I dont know enough about Jesus, havent read much of his shit, so i dont know for sure. Modern day( (thus relevant) Christains arent Jews, or our brothers (in a religious sense). They reject most of the biblical law, they think Jesus was the messiah, and thus they worship a false god, by Jewish standards. im not sure what Christains are being left out of...or for that matter, what they would gain from being "incorporated" or what that would even mean.

I started reading the Prophets yesterday (Joshua). If its at all true, the Israelites killed a lot of people (12,000 men women and children in one city alone) upon arrival in the Promised Land...

Muslims, from what i understand, are the "bigger man" as far as your interpretation goes. They accept Moses and Jesus as prophets, but see Muhamed as the greatest and the final word on all things godly. Thus according to Sharia (Islamic law) Christians and Jews have the right to live and are protected as "People of the Book". Jews and Christians, under Sharia, however are to live as second class citizens and pay a special tax.


maybe you could explain the whole brotherhood thing a little more....

12 February 2008 at 19:24
Jasper Yate said...

you were talking about the yiddishland-i forgot the term you used. from that i gathered, though it is a particular yiddish sect, a sense of a proud jewish brotherhood whose uniting factor is yiddish. this is clearly not a religious distinction, so there must be some level of mutual pride that you share not only with yiddishland, but that yiddishland shares on a basic level with the diaspora. i mean it seems to be a common thread that the jewish tradition is a united and proud tradition because of its heritage. what im asking is if christianity, and islam as well, share the right to that pride.

i mean thinking about it historically it doesnt seem like a question at all - no muslims want to be included in the jewish tradition, nor do christians. but you i feel like theres something that im too tired to put into this context, but is analagous to black people being allowed to make black jokes, but the same jokes being taboo for caucasians. not like jewish jokes hah, but i mean like ---i guess for now because i dont have the energy to finish this thought and im distracted by myself ill leave it with this; people who feel close, who feel like theyre family, like they have a bond stronger than words can break (this is of course a matter of personal belief) - these people feel more comfortable with each other. i dont know if im trying to get at global comfort or what, but if the three most prominent religions on the planet (they are right?) had this sort of common ground and place to start from and respect from, it feels like something would be different.

12 February 2008 at 22:07
The W said...

According to Simon Dubnow's The Ethics of Nationalism (See December archive) the Russian philosopher Solovyev said something like "...we should love alll men as we wove ourselves. But since men do not live outside of nations...and since this connection has already become moral and inward as well as physical the direct logical deduction is that we must love all nations as we love our own."

Dubnow responds in part by saying "The man who loves his people because he is linked by ties of blood and spirit cannot love in the same degree members of other nations to whom he is not bound by such ties...I would submit the following concrete proposition: Recognize the freedom of each national group as you recognize your own national freedom; or: honor the national individuality of others as you do your own."

The heritage for Jews extends more into the Diaspora than not. at this point weve been in exile longer than not. thus our heritage consists of thousands of years in that exile. Others dont share that tradition. They have their own heritages and such to be proud of and united them. I understand what you mean by global comfort, but i interpret it more abstractly than a specific heritage. general human culture, the sharing (not forcing) of ideas and knowledge among people is the goal. the sooner more people can simultaneously repect themselves and others the closer we will get to that comfort...

theres a billion+ muslims close to a billion if not more Christains, but theres only about 13 million or so Jews, most of them probably not that devout. Im positive that there is exponentially more Hindus and Budhists than Jews. Judaism Islam and Chritianity get coupled together a lot because they share a common prophet (Abraham) and are all mono-theisms..

13 February 2008 at 11:44

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